How did the universe come into being, and why are we part of it? Sir Roger Penrose (atheist-leaning Nobel laureate) and Christian philosopher William Lane Craig come together for this mind-stretching Big Conversation: “Did the universe begin and what is its origin and purpose in it?” Penrose outlines his three “mysteries” (physics, mind, mathematics) and his Conformal Cyclic Cosmology, while Craig argues that the beginning of the universe, the applicability of maths, morality and fine-tuning point to a divine mind. Expect respectful fireworks and first-rate clarity from two titans on this classic of Unbelievable? podcast. Since recording, Penrose received the 2020 Nobel Prize in Physics for work on black holes, reinvigorating interest in his cosmic ideas. Craig has continued to draw huge audiences, publishing In Quest of the Historical Adam (2021) and debating cosmology and God worldwide.

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Released on 7 Oct 2025